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	<title>Comments on: Special Ed Vouchers Restrain Growth in Disabilities</title>
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	<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/</link>
	<description>With Help From Some Friends</description>
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		<title>By: NO MORE ILLEGAL ALIENS PLEASE</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/#comment-18340</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NO MORE ILLEGAL ALIENS PLEASE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=4254#comment-18340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of biggest scams in educational waste is the serving to illegal alien students whom are often classifed as having a speech disablity called &quot;articulation disorder&quot; so they qualify for special ed, when in fact, they don&#039;t have an articulation disorder. What they have is a &quot;i can&#039;t speaky english because my  mom and dad just illegally entered USA last week&quot; disorder, which can be cured with a bus trip back to Mexico for the kid and his law breaking parents. Adios and savings of upto 22 billion a year for CaLIFORNIA.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of biggest scams in educational waste is the serving to illegal alien students whom are often classifed as having a speech disablity called &#8220;articulation disorder&#8221; so they qualify for special ed, when in fact, they don&#8217;t have an articulation disorder. What they have is a &#8220;i can&#8217;t speaky english because my  mom and dad just illegally entered USA last week&#8221; disorder, which can be cured with a bus trip back to Mexico for the kid and his law breaking parents. Adios and savings of upto 22 billion a year for CaLIFORNIA.</p>
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		<title>By: More evidence for special-ed vouchers &#171; Schools for Tomorrow - Education News Colorado - Colorado&#8217;s Comprehensive Site for Education News</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/#comment-6201</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More evidence for special-ed vouchers &#171; Schools for Tomorrow - Education News Colorado - Colorado&#8217;s Comprehensive Site for Education News]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=4254#comment-6201</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] more this finding pans out, the more it could potentially roll back a broader unhealthy trend also identified by Greene: Nearly 1 in 7 students nationwide is now classified as having a disability. That’s 63% more than [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more this finding pans out, the more it could potentially roll back a broader unhealthy trend also identified by Greene: Nearly 1 in 7 students nationwide is now classified as having a disability. That’s 63% more than [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jay P. Greene</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/#comment-6200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jay P. Greene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=4254#comment-6200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the report from the trenches, Allison!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the report from the trenches, Allison!</p>
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		<title>By: Allison Hertog</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/#comment-6199</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Allison Hertog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=4254#comment-6199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I write from the Florida special needs voucher trenches - I am both an attorney for parents of disabled public school students and a fierce proponent of the McKay Scholarship.  I don&#039;t doubt the results of Greene and Winters&#039; study which addresses those students with &quot;marginal&quot; disabilities.  But special needs vouchers may provide an even greater benefit (to both schools and parents) for moderately disabled students.  

In my experience, the most severely disabled get expensive special education services, regardless of what the quality of those services may be. But there are few private schools (at least in South Florida) which can meet the needs of those students at a reasonable cost - even if a parent gets a $20,000 McKay Scholarship to private school!  

Because of the way Florida special education funding is structured there is no added incentive for giving special ed. services to the moderately disabled - the schools do not get more money for labeling or serving them than they get for the mild or marginally disabled.  Yet, the moderately disabled are more difficult and expensive to educate.  Thus, I have found that Florida parents of the moderately disabled tend to be less satisfied with the public schools which generally are not effectively educating them.

If a parent of a moderately disabled student leaves public school with a McKay voucher worth let&#039;s say $10,000/year, that money could put a good dent in a Florida private school tuition which may do a better job educating that child.  At the same time, the school district still retains the federal special ed. funds for that child but is no longer responsible for the touch job of educating him or her.  

The bottom line is that while special needs vouchers may not decrease the financial incentive to label students who are moderately disabled, they may result in a win-win situation for both schools and parents.  And the largest growth in the use of Florida special needs vouchers may come from those students.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I write from the Florida special needs voucher trenches &#8211; I am both an attorney for parents of disabled public school students and a fierce proponent of the McKay Scholarship.  I don&#8217;t doubt the results of Greene and Winters&#8217; study which addresses those students with &#8220;marginal&#8221; disabilities.  But special needs vouchers may provide an even greater benefit (to both schools and parents) for moderately disabled students.  </p>
<p>In my experience, the most severely disabled get expensive special education services, regardless of what the quality of those services may be. But there are few private schools (at least in South Florida) which can meet the needs of those students at a reasonable cost &#8211; even if a parent gets a $20,000 McKay Scholarship to private school!  </p>
<p>Because of the way Florida special education funding is structured there is no added incentive for giving special ed. services to the moderately disabled &#8211; the schools do not get more money for labeling or serving them than they get for the mild or marginally disabled.  Yet, the moderately disabled are more difficult and expensive to educate.  Thus, I have found that Florida parents of the moderately disabled tend to be less satisfied with the public schools which generally are not effectively educating them.</p>
<p>If a parent of a moderately disabled student leaves public school with a McKay voucher worth let&#8217;s say $10,000/year, that money could put a good dent in a Florida private school tuition which may do a better job educating that child.  At the same time, the school district still retains the federal special ed. funds for that child but is no longer responsible for the touch job of educating him or her.  </p>
<p>The bottom line is that while special needs vouchers may not decrease the financial incentive to label students who are moderately disabled, they may result in a win-win situation for both schools and parents.  And the largest growth in the use of Florida special needs vouchers may come from those students.</p>
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		<title>By: Special ed vouchers cut disability diagnoses at Joanne Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/#comment-6190</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Special ed vouchers cut disability diagnoses at Joanne Jacobs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=4254#comment-6190</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Public schools identify fewer students as disabled if disability qualifies kids for a  voucher to attend another school, concludes a Jay Greene-Marcus Winters&#8217; study released by the Manhattan Institute. . . . the vouchers check public schools’ financial incentives to identify more students as disabled. Public schools may get additional subsidies when they shift more students into special education, but if they then make students eligible for special education vouchers, they risk having those students walk out the door with all of their funding. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Public schools identify fewer students as disabled if disability qualifies kids for a  voucher to attend another school, concludes a Jay Greene-Marcus Winters&#8217; study released by the Manhattan Institute. . . . the vouchers check public schools’ financial incentives to identify more students as disabled. Public schools may get additional subsidies when they shift more students into special education, but if they then make students eligible for special education vouchers, they risk having those students walk out the door with all of their funding. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/#comment-6189</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=4254#comment-6189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yup the excuses don&#039;t make logical sense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup the excuses don&#8217;t make logical sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay P. Greene</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/#comment-6188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jay P. Greene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=4254#comment-6188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pat wrote: &quot;I noticed in the fiscal notes that several school districts claimed they would be harmed by the bill.&quot;

I thought schools complain that special education was a horrible financial burden on them.  You would think they would be eager to push disabled kids out the door to save money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat wrote: &#8220;I noticed in the fiscal notes that several school districts claimed they would be harmed by the bill.&#8221;</p>
<p>I thought schools complain that special education was a horrible financial burden on them.  You would think they would be eager to push disabled kids out the door to save money.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/#comment-6186</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=4254#comment-6186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good points, I&#039;ll take a look at that study.

I also found it interesting that someone in the minutes seemed to be against the bill but had the objection that it wouldn&#039;t be fair to special needs kids already enrolled in private schools on the ground that kids could only be eligible for the voucher if they were on an IEP.

One person believed that this restriction would mean the kid could only go to the private school for one year and then must return to the public school because the private school wouldn&#039;t give an IEP.

Another worried that private schools would take special needs kids just to get the income even though they didn&#039;t have a program for special needs kids (aka parents are too stupid)

Another worried that private schools didn&#039;t have certified teachers *rolls eyes*

And the Nye County School District did not like it because the children would not be subject to NCLB and therefore the private schools wouldn’t be held accountable to providing a quality education.

...I guess NCLB is good if it prevents the competition from getting funding but its bad if it means you actually have to prove that the kids are learning.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, I&#8217;ll take a look at that study.</p>
<p>I also found it interesting that someone in the minutes seemed to be against the bill but had the objection that it wouldn&#8217;t be fair to special needs kids already enrolled in private schools on the ground that kids could only be eligible for the voucher if they were on an IEP.</p>
<p>One person believed that this restriction would mean the kid could only go to the private school for one year and then must return to the public school because the private school wouldn&#8217;t give an IEP.</p>
<p>Another worried that private schools would take special needs kids just to get the income even though they didn&#8217;t have a program for special needs kids (aka parents are too stupid)</p>
<p>Another worried that private schools didn&#8217;t have certified teachers *rolls eyes*</p>
<p>And the Nye County School District did not like it because the children would not be subject to NCLB and therefore the private schools wouldn’t be held accountable to providing a quality education.</p>
<p>&#8230;I guess NCLB is good if it prevents the competition from getting funding but its bad if it means you actually have to prove that the kids are learning.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/#comment-6185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=4254#comment-6185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I noticed in the fiscal notes that several school districts claimed they would be harmed by the bill.

When I read the bill the scholarship would be the sum of the Basic Support (the state&#039;s per pupil appropriation to each district – this ranges from just under $5,000 to $17,000 but averages $5,250) plus whatever additional local/state/federal fund was available for special education.

While the districts total appropriation would decrease the per-pupil funding would, in the worst case scenario, remain the same.

They of course don&#039;t want to lose a dime.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed in the fiscal notes that several school districts claimed they would be harmed by the bill.</p>
<p>When I read the bill the scholarship would be the sum of the Basic Support (the state&#8217;s per pupil appropriation to each district – this ranges from just under $5,000 to $17,000 but averages $5,250) plus whatever additional local/state/federal fund was available for special education.</p>
<p>While the districts total appropriation would decrease the per-pupil funding would, in the worst case scenario, remain the same.</p>
<p>They of course don&#8217;t want to lose a dime.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay P. Greene</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/08/18/special-ed-vouchers-restrain-growth-in-disabilities/#comment-6183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jay P. Greene]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=4254#comment-6183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The argument that special ed vouchers are bad because they lose the protection of an IEP is mistaken on two grounds (other than the hypocrisy you note):

1) Students never lose whatever protection the IEP provides becuase they can always return to public schools and accept those services or pursue the legal process.  All that the voucher does is give them an additional mechanism for obtaining the services they desire.

2) According to an evaluation of McKay that Greg and I conducted in 2003 (see http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_38.htm )students were more likely to receive needed services when they switched to a private schools with a voucher.  Even though they were legally entitled to those services in public schools, they often weren&#039;t able to get them.  And in the private schools, where they had no legal rights to specific services but did have market power, they were significantly more likely to get those services.  Go figure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The argument that special ed vouchers are bad because they lose the protection of an IEP is mistaken on two grounds (other than the hypocrisy you note):</p>
<p>1) Students never lose whatever protection the IEP provides becuase they can always return to public schools and accept those services or pursue the legal process.  All that the voucher does is give them an additional mechanism for obtaining the services they desire.</p>
<p>2) According to an evaluation of McKay that Greg and I conducted in 2003 (see <a href="http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_38.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_38.htm</a> )students were more likely to receive needed services when they switched to a private schools with a voucher.  Even though they were legally entitled to those services in public schools, they often weren&#8217;t able to get them.  And in the private schools, where they had no legal rights to specific services but did have market power, they were significantly more likely to get those services.  Go figure.</p>
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