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	<title>Comments on: KIPP RIP</title>
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	<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/</link>
	<description>With Help From Some Friends</description>
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		<title>By: What Are They So Afraid Of? &#124; Edwize</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/#comment-3619</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What Are They So Afraid Of? &#124; Edwize]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=2513#comment-3619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the blog of Jay Greene and the United Cherry Pickers, Matthew Ladner suggests that what Rome is reputed to have done to Carthage is the right approach for an unionized charter [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the blog of Jay Greene and the United Cherry Pickers, Matthew Ladner suggests that what Rome is reputed to have done to Carthage is the right approach for an unionized charter [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KIPP’s Union at More About Education</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/#comment-3616</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KIPP’s Union at More About Education]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=2513#comment-3616</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Matt Ladner calls me out as a teachers&#8217; union apologist.   Perhaps.  But I think the specter Matt describes isn&#8217;t likely here because of this [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Matt Ladner calls me out as a teachers&#8217; union apologist.   Perhaps.  But I think the specter Matt describes isn&#8217;t likely here because of this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Saba</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/#comment-3610</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Saba]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=2513#comment-3610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unions creep in because labor is not happy.  No one seems to mention the fact that the KIPP teacher demands for teacher time leads to a lot of burn-out.  Could this be a flaw in the model? Part of the reason they hire TFA alums is to find those dedicated souls who will work incredibly long hours because they care about kids. But at some point it will be difficult to replicate.  The sad part is they turned to a union instead of working with school leaders which is very hard to understand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unions creep in because labor is not happy.  No one seems to mention the fact that the KIPP teacher demands for teacher time leads to a lot of burn-out.  Could this be a flaw in the model? Part of the reason they hire TFA alums is to find those dedicated souls who will work incredibly long hours because they care about kids. But at some point it will be difficult to replicate.  The sad part is they turned to a union instead of working with school leaders which is very hard to understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/#comment-3592</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Corey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 06:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=2513#comment-3592</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Two questions:

1.) KIPP Academy in the Bronx has been unionized since inception.  Is it doing noticeably worse than other KIPP schools?

2.) Why is it that union-busting is ok to suggest?  Have we learned nothing from the Pinkerton guards?  Is it completely out of the realm of possibility that the school could successfully negotiate with unionized teachers?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two questions:</p>
<p>1.) KIPP Academy in the Bronx has been unionized since inception.  Is it doing noticeably worse than other KIPP schools?</p>
<p>2.) Why is it that union-busting is ok to suggest?  Have we learned nothing from the Pinkerton guards?  Is it completely out of the realm of possibility that the school could successfully negotiate with unionized teachers?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/#comment-3585</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=2513#comment-3585</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From Andy&#039;s Blog:

Update:  Matt Ladner calls me out as a teachers’ union apologist.   Perhaps.  But I think the specter Matt describes isn’t likely here because of this leverage question.   Having looked closely at this issue from a couple of perspectives I’d say that the first generation contracts will not be onerous at all.   It’s the second and third generation effects that are unknown and important for charter schools to think through.   Yet there is risk there for the teachers’ unions, too.  Namely dilution.   The more reformist agreements they sign onto and the more common the portfolio approach to contracts becomes then the harder it gets to defend a lot of the work rules that exist in many places.   And, it’s possible to envision a scenario where they become sort of like AAA.  People sign up for services they like but are largely ignorant of the organization’s public policy positions and advocacy.   There is some of that going on now as it is.  That could mean several things, good and bad, for education politics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Andy&#8217;s Blog:</p>
<p>Update:  Matt Ladner calls me out as a teachers’ union apologist.   Perhaps.  But I think the specter Matt describes isn’t likely here because of this leverage question.   Having looked closely at this issue from a couple of perspectives I’d say that the first generation contracts will not be onerous at all.   It’s the second and third generation effects that are unknown and important for charter schools to think through.   Yet there is risk there for the teachers’ unions, too.  Namely dilution.   The more reformist agreements they sign onto and the more common the portfolio approach to contracts becomes then the harder it gets to defend a lot of the work rules that exist in many places.   And, it’s possible to envision a scenario where they become sort of like AAA.  People sign up for services they like but are largely ignorant of the organization’s public policy positions and advocacy.   There is some of that going on now as it is.  That could mean several things, good and bad, for education politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/#comment-3584</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=2513#comment-3584</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The good news is we will likely have more hard evidence of unions destroying innovation in just a few years (test student achievement before and after). The bad news is the kids will suffer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The good news is we will likely have more hard evidence of unions destroying innovation in just a few years (test student achievement before and after). The bad news is the kids will suffer.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Forster</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/#comment-3582</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Forster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=2513#comment-3582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to undermine federalism by inventing the doctrine of &quot;incorporation&quot; because it&#039;s easier than amending the Constitution to get what we want.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to undermine federalism by inventing the doctrine of &#8220;incorporation&#8221; because it&#8217;s easier than amending the Constitution to get what we want.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/#comment-3579</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=2513#comment-3579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The 11th amendment does not always keep federal legislation from applying to state employees, and to the extent that it does it only protects states from lawsuits if they fail to comply. Courts can still order them to follow the law, but there is little recourse that can be taken if they ignore the law. See Seminole v Florida.

The feds have a  workaround as well. They&#039;ll do their best to pass these types of laws under powers obtained from the 14th amendment if possible.  The courts have established that the 14th trumps the 11th.  That&#039;s why FMLA legislation relied heavily on &quot;discrimatory&quot; justifications for ensuring equal access to leave by males and females.  Framing it that way got them past the 11th amendment hurdle.

The Commerce Clause it out of style because the 11th trumps it.  The 14th trumps the 11th.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 11th amendment does not always keep federal legislation from applying to state employees, and to the extent that it does it only protects states from lawsuits if they fail to comply. Courts can still order them to follow the law, but there is little recourse that can be taken if they ignore the law. See Seminole v Florida.</p>
<p>The feds have a  workaround as well. They&#8217;ll do their best to pass these types of laws under powers obtained from the 14th amendment if possible.  The courts have established that the 14th trumps the 11th.  That&#8217;s why FMLA legislation relied heavily on &#8220;discrimatory&#8221; justifications for ensuring equal access to leave by males and females.  Framing it that way got them past the 11th amendment hurdle.</p>
<p>The Commerce Clause it out of style because the 11th trumps it.  The 14th trumps the 11th.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: K-W-H-L Chart at The Core Knowledge Blog</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/#comment-3578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[K-W-H-L Chart at The Core Knowledge Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=2513#comment-3578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] that effort to unionize a KIPP school going? Depends on who you ask&#8230;&#8230;..Should America&#8217;s Black History Month itself fade into history?  Some [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that effort to unionize a KIPP school going? Depends on who you ask&#8230;&#8230;..Should America&#8217;s Black History Month itself fade into history?  Some [...]</p>
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		<title>By: matthewladner</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2009/02/11/kipp-rip/#comment-3574</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[matthewladner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.com/?p=2513#comment-3574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My thanks to both Clint and Socrates for clarification.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My thanks to both Clint and Socrates for clarification.</p>
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