Comments on: Sidwell Friends, America’s Worst School

By: Malcolm Kirkpatrick

Malcolm Kirkpatrick — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:03:19 +0000

The Hawaii State Teachers Associatio (HSTA), an NEA subsidiary, supported the creation of the Hawaii Teachers Standards Board. The legislature mandated that four members of this board be nominated by the HSTA, three by the Hawaii Government Employees Association (HGEA, the principals’ union), one by the College of Education (and the University of Hawaii Professional Assembly is an NEA subsidiary) . The director of the Teachers Standards Board makes $80,000 per year. The first director was Sharon Mahoe, a former President of the HSTA.

By: Attorney DC

Attorney DC — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:15:10 +0000

Greg: You’re right: I don’t have any in-depth lobbying knowledge with regard to the inner workings of teachers unions and their effect on the credentialing process. But as a former teacher (especially during my time teaching in California), I kept watch on the development of new credentialing requirements as they were batted around the state legislature and dept of education (not to mention the NCLB requirements). From my ground level viewpoint, I just didn’t see much impact of unions on creating new and ever-changing credentialing requirements. The governing bodies seemed to be responding to a perceived desire on the part of the public for “better qualified teachers.” But, like you said, I’m not an expert.

By: Patrick

Patrick — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:45:09 +0000

From my understanding some of the certification requirements have the teachers union teaching the courses necessary to be certified. Thus its just one more way for the union to make money.

As a former public school teacher myself, I can say that is one area where teachers really, really dislike the teachers union. The bulk of teachers dislike jumping through all those hoops year after year.

As for new teachers, my experience has shown me that the bulk of teachers want new or would be teachers to jump through those hoops – they just don’t want to do it too.

By: Stuart Buck

Stuart Buck — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:57:27 +0000

As an attorney, it was personally frustrating to have to study for the bar exam. But having surpassed that hurdle, it’s also in my interest (whether I know of this or not) for the state bar regulators to make all other would-be attorneys pass the bar exam, given that this requirement is a barrier to entry that limits my potential competition.

By: Greg Forster

Greg Forster — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 03:08:29 +0000

Teachers and teachers’ unions are different things. Teachers know that the certification racket is a scam. That doesn’t mean their unions don’t support it. Unions support policies that benefit unions, not their members. And the certification requirements benefit the unions by creating a barrier to entry for the profession.

Oh, and if, by your own admission, you don’t know much about union lobbying activity, you might consider refraining from making strongly worded claims about what is or is not a result of union lobbying activity.

By: Attorney DC

Attorney DC — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 01:51:06 +0000

Jay: I don’t have any personal experience with the lobbying efforts of the NEA or AFT. And I never lived or taught in New York (which appears to be a hotbed of union activity!). All I can say is that from my experience teaching in both union and non-union states, teachers were often pretty frustrated with the credentialing requirements, which vary from state to state and can change frequently. Teachers I knew were certainly not asking their unions to press for stricter and ever-changing credentialing requirements! I also did not see a direct link between union lobbying and any specific credentialing requirement. Additional crendentialing requirements seemed to be more of a political sop thrown out by the state legislatures in an effort to appear to be “doing something” to improve schools.

By: Jay P. Greene

Jay P. Greene — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 13:13:03 +0000

Attorney DC,

Do you mean to suggest that it isn’t the teacher union lobbyists advocating for certification requirements? Oh, and the unions are active in lobbying even in states without collective bargaining.

This is a bit like saying that minimal checks on prospective gun purchasers “are the products of states” and have nothing to do with the NRA.

By: Attorney DC

Attorney DC — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 23:44:58 +0000

It seems that some of these comments blame unions for teacher certification requirements. As a former teachers in boh the public and private schoolsystems, I wanted to point out that teacher certification requirements are handed down by the state board of education, not by the NEA or AFT. These requirements exist in states that have no teacher unions (“at will” states), like Virginia, as well as in states with strong unions, like New York. I am not a fan of traditional certification requirements, and I want to correct the impression that these requirements are the result of unions. In fact, they are the product of states (and of the federal government under the NCLB “qualified teacher” standards).

By: Jay P. Greene

Jay P. Greene — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:20:59 +0000

What do Barack Obama, Joe Biden, George W. Bush. John Kerry, and Geroge H.W. Bush have in common? Not one of them attended a school that had a policy to hire certified teachers. All of their schools were private and non-unionized. Obviously students attending these schools with “unqualified” teachers can’t be expected to amount to much in life or appreciate the virtues of democracy.

By: Greg Forster

Greg Forster — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:57:45 +0000

Yes, it’s supposed to – Jay’s comment thread is where I wrote my original response.