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	<title>Comments on: Voucher Effects on Participants</title>
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	<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/</link>
	<description>With Help From Some Friends</description>
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		<title>By: Obama&#8217;s Little Evidence Problem &#124; Cato @ Liberty</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/#comment-19265</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Obama&#8217;s Little Evidence Problem &#124; Cato @ Liberty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=694#comment-19265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] statement, are not an aberration for school choice. The highest-calibre research on choice has almost always found clear benefits stemming from it, and has never found negative [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] statement, are not an aberration for school choice. The highest-calibre research on choice has almost always found clear benefits stemming from it, and has never found negative [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Is an Education Free Market Really &#8216;Totally Insane&#8217; &#124; Cato @ Liberty</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/#comment-16063</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Is an Education Free Market Really &#8216;Totally Insane&#8217; &#124; Cato @ Liberty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Oct 2010 11:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=694#comment-16063</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] may just be a huge waste of money. Meanwhile, many relatively barebones private schools seem to do just as good a job or better at educating students. Oh, and there&#8217;s that charity thing again: Religious schools [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] may just be a huge waste of money. Meanwhile, many relatively barebones private schools seem to do just as good a job or better at educating students. Oh, and there&#8217;s that charity thing again: Religious schools [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: School Choice Campaign &#187; The Case for Special Education Vouchers</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/#comment-6769</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[School Choice Campaign &#187; The Case for Special Education Vouchers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 09:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=694#comment-6769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] big battles over school vouchers in American education have focused on programs serving low-income children who live in urban areas. Milwaukee’s program, begun in 1990, is the biggest and oldest in the country, and the District [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] big battles over school vouchers in American education have focused on programs serving low-income children who live in urban areas. Milwaukee’s program, begun in 1990, is the biggest and oldest in the country, and the District [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dropout Nation &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Read: Thinks tanks go wild edition</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/#comment-6523</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dropout Nation &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Read: Thinks tanks go wild edition]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=694#comment-6523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] voucher supporters of cherry-picking studies that support their positions. Jay Greene responds by listing a series of different studies proving the value of the school choice plans. Greg Forster [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] voucher supporters of cherry-picking studies that support their positions. Jay Greene responds by listing a series of different studies proving the value of the school choice plans. Greg Forster [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: News Flash for Ed Reporters: Yes, Vouchers Have Been Proven Effective &#124; Think Tank West</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/#comment-2427</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[News Flash for Ed Reporters: Yes, Vouchers Have Been Proven Effective &#124; Think Tank West]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=694#comment-2427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the gold-standard of testing treatment effects). All ten demonstrate positive voucher effects, 9 out of 10 find statistically significant effects for at least some subgroups, and 8 out of 10 find [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the gold-standard of testing treatment effects). All ten demonstrate positive voucher effects, 9 out of 10 find statistically significant effects for at least some subgroups, and 8 out of 10 find [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: indiana department of education</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/#comment-1954</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[indiana department of education]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=694#comment-1954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] skyboxes for Leo and his buddies at the Democratic National Convention to make-up for the conventiohttp://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/Indiana University School of Education HomeAcademic programs, faculty and staff, services, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] skyboxes for Leo and his buddies at the Democratic National Convention to make-up for the conventiohttp://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/Indiana University School of Education HomeAcademic programs, faculty and staff, services, [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Greg Forster</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/#comment-1808</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Forster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=694#comment-1808</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the BB people have their way, soon it really will be &quot;social services.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the BB people have their way, soon it really will be &#8220;social services.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/#comment-1805</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=694#comment-1805</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The intended reference was Steuerle, Reischauer, et. al, __Vouchers and the Provision of Public Services__ (not &quot;Social Services&quot;), (Brookings).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The intended reference was Steuerle, Reischauer, et. al, __Vouchers and the Provision of Public Services__ (not &#8220;Social Services&#8221;), (Brookings).</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/#comment-1802</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Malcolm Kirkpatrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=694#comment-1802</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me be clear: I support policies which give to individual parents the power to determine which institution shall receive the K-12 subsidy that taxpayers allot to their (the parents&#039; ) children. With some reasonable assumptions, measures of student performance in these random-assignment lotteries support the argument for parent control. Unless these assumptions are made explicit, however, measures of student performance are weak arguments, for the reason I gave: students in voucher-accepting schools could do worse and vouchers could still be good policy. Also, students in voucher-accepting schools systematically could do better than lottery losers and still vouchers might lower &lt;i&gt;overall&lt;/i&gt; system performance. 

Brian, the monkeys sicken on the grazer, omnivore, and carnivore diets.

Patrick, I agree that a wide range of options is better than the current US system. At some point, however, that wide range of choice sabotages attempts to measure the effectis of schooling. Consider the conclusion to my post &quot;What&#039;s a Linear Differential Operator, Anyway?&quot;. According to one of the chapters in Vouchers and the Provision of Social Services, standardized Math test performance is lower and standardized Lagguage test performance is higher in countries which subsidize parent control bud DO NOT require schools to assess students&#039; Math performance than in countries which subsidize parent control and DO require schools to assess Math performance. I infer that Math matters more to Education Department bureaucrats and to politicians than it does to parents.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me be clear: I support policies which give to individual parents the power to determine which institution shall receive the K-12 subsidy that taxpayers allot to their (the parents&#8217; ) children. With some reasonable assumptions, measures of student performance in these random-assignment lotteries support the argument for parent control. Unless these assumptions are made explicit, however, measures of student performance are weak arguments, for the reason I gave: students in voucher-accepting schools could do worse and vouchers could still be good policy. Also, students in voucher-accepting schools systematically could do better than lottery losers and still vouchers might lower <i>overall</i> system performance. </p>
<p>Brian, the monkeys sicken on the grazer, omnivore, and carnivore diets.</p>
<p>Patrick, I agree that a wide range of options is better than the current US system. At some point, however, that wide range of choice sabotages attempts to measure the effectis of schooling. Consider the conclusion to my post &#8220;What&#8217;s a Linear Differential Operator, Anyway?&#8221;. According to one of the chapters in Vouchers and the Provision of Social Services, standardized Math test performance is lower and standardized Lagguage test performance is higher in countries which subsidize parent control bud DO NOT require schools to assess students&#8217; Math performance than in countries which subsidize parent control and DO require schools to assess Math performance. I infer that Math matters more to Education Department bureaucrats and to politicians than it does to parents.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Kisida</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/08/21/voucher-effects-on-participants/#comment-1796</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Kisida]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=694#comment-1796</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Coincidentally, I just read a well-designed study by Angrist and Krueger on compulsory schooling and educational attainment.  They had a really novel approach to control for the selection and endogeneity issues that most attainment studies have. 

I would also like to see the rigorous research that has been done on this zoo food issue.  I had no idea that antelope can&#039;t live on mangos and guavas, but apparently pigs can?  But alfalfa kills pigs?  And 3/4 of the monkeys die? Really?  You would think mangos and guavas would be perfect for them. 

As far as the analogy (Malcolm), these studies do let the &quot;animals eat what they want.&quot;  Animals who are malnourished are identified.  Some of these animals graze on whatever they normally eat, and some randomly have a bucket of mangoes or alfalfa offered to them.  And then the animals eat whatever they want.  Compliance is voluntary.  I think you suggest that you think that selection bias is a good thing because you think some sort of voluntary choice needs to be a part of the analysis.  Well, it is.  The only thing that is randomly assigned are the amount of options the treatment and control groups have.  What they do with those options is up to them.   I think that good evaluations of choice are not (should not) be thought of as evaluations of alfalfa or mango diets, they should be thought of as evaluations of &quot;choice.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coincidentally, I just read a well-designed study by Angrist and Krueger on compulsory schooling and educational attainment.  They had a really novel approach to control for the selection and endogeneity issues that most attainment studies have. </p>
<p>I would also like to see the rigorous research that has been done on this zoo food issue.  I had no idea that antelope can&#8217;t live on mangos and guavas, but apparently pigs can?  But alfalfa kills pigs?  And 3/4 of the monkeys die? Really?  You would think mangos and guavas would be perfect for them. </p>
<p>As far as the analogy (Malcolm), these studies do let the &#8220;animals eat what they want.&#8221;  Animals who are malnourished are identified.  Some of these animals graze on whatever they normally eat, and some randomly have a bucket of mangoes or alfalfa offered to them.  And then the animals eat whatever they want.  Compliance is voluntary.  I think you suggest that you think that selection bias is a good thing because you think some sort of voluntary choice needs to be a part of the analysis.  Well, it is.  The only thing that is randomly assigned are the amount of options the treatment and control groups have.  What they do with those options is up to them.   I think that good evaluations of choice are not (should not) be thought of as evaluations of alfalfa or mango diets, they should be thought of as evaluations of &#8220;choice.&#8221;</p>
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