Comments on: Camp Education

By: Anon

Anon — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 00:20:31 +0000

Is this satire?

By: Burning Out on Burnout Stories « EdNext

Burning Out on Burnout Stories « EdNext — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:30:16 +0000

[...] we should become more comfortable with turnover in education. Maybe schools should be run more like summer camps. We would rely on a large number of bright, young, and enthusiastic teachers, most of whom would [...]

By: markm

markm — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:53:46 +0000

How closely are those college kids working as camp counselors supervised? I think the reason camps do well with such a staffing model and schools often fail with much better prepared new hires is that camps have active and competent management – or go out of business – while school administrators often seem to have come to that career field by being too stupid to teach.

My impression when I was in public schools forty years ago was that the average new teacher had a whole lot of educational theory but only a little experience as a student teacher working with kids under supervision, and then they were thrown into a classroom by themselves to sink or swim. My 6th grade teacher sank, ending her first and only year of teaching so stressed out she needed a stay in a mental institution. And as far as I could tell, the principal did nothing to help her cope, nor to see the kids learned something that year. She did have the bad luck of drawing a class with three hyperactive near-geniuses that often alleviated the boredom of unchallenging subject material by torturing the teacher (I was one of them), but if the school had been as competently managed as, say, a McDonald’s, the management would have understood that it was throwing a newby into a tough job, would have frequently checked up on how she was doing and provided frequent feedback and additional training, and would have pulled her out and put in someone who could handle it if needed.

By: Are Expensive Summer Camps Expensive… | Think Tank West

Are Expensive Summer Camps Expensive… | Think Tank West — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:23:42 +0000

[...] … when compared to public schooling? For the interesting answer to that question, have a look at Jay Greene’s edu blog. [...]

By: The Difference Between « Where’s the Sun?

The Difference Between « Where’s the Sun? — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:20:50 +0000

[...] the differences between children from low socioeconomic backgrounds versus children who come from higher ones is in how the way they spend their summers. The differences can have a direct impact on test [...]

By: Too fun at Joanne Jacobs

Too fun at Joanne Jacobs — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:51:54 +0000

[...] Greene, a fan of macaroni art, wonders why school can’t be more like summer camp, which his kids find enjoyable and often [...]

By: Nate

Nate — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:10:16 +0000

Here in CA my mother is a public school teacher, I don’t think it’s exactly the same as the NCLB requirements, but she has to spend hours filling out BTSA standards paperwork and going to meetings about the standard. It sucks the life out of her and makes her very unhappy, then there’s all the work surrounding the CA exit exams…

As for me, I’m going to be sending my son to a local free school. With the exception of the hiring model, it much more resembles a Summer camp.

By: Ryan Marsh

Ryan Marsh — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:26:33 +0000

“I can’t quite understand how NCLB is so burdensome on teachers when as far as I know not a single teacher has been fired or experienced a pay cut as a result of it.”

Psychological burden? I don’t like NCLB, therefore I’m burdened by its existence and influence on something related to my job?

By: Jay P. Greene

Jay P. Greene — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:00:35 +0000

I appreciate all of these comments. It’s a challenge to recruit and retain 3 million high-quality public school teachers under any staffing model. If we choose to go the more professional route, how do we find and afford 3 million highly-trained and compensated professionals? Remember that roughly 1 out of every 100 people in the US is currently working as a public school teacher. My thought (and it is just a thought) is that it might be easier and cheaper to get 3 million high-quality folks if the school system only has them temporarily.

Rory makes a good point that TFA may have already exhausted this well, but that is under a compensation system that punishes short-termers by denying them any pension benefits and by giving them the lowest pay. I wonder whether we might be able to get many more TFA-types if we let them keep their retirement benefits in a 403b and if we increased the pay for people who are more effective.

As to Joanne and NYC Educator’s points that camp is mostly about life skills, I agree with them. My point is not so much about the content of camp but the staffing model.

Lastly, on the concern that testing sucks the energy out of school — the consequences of NCLB testing for individual teachers are about as meaningful as the consequences for camp counselors from losing color wars. This should be the topic of a separate post, but I can’t quite understand how NCLB is so burdensome on teachers when as far as I know not a single teacher has been fired or experienced a pay cut as a result of it.

By: NYC Educator

NYC Educator — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:22:01 +0000

My kid goes to a day camp and she loves it. I wouldn’t want it to be like school because she’s a kid and she needs to play. But I wouldn’t want her to play all day in school either.

I think kids need both.