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	<title>Comments on: Can RTI Work? We Went To The Moon, Right?</title>
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	<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/06/10/can-rti-work-we-went-to-the-moon-right/</link>
	<description>With Help From Some Friends</description>
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		<title>By: Q&#38;A Session with My Inner Self &#171; Where&#8217;s the Sun?</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/06/10/can-rti-work-we-went-to-the-moon-right/#comment-964</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Q&#38;A Session with My Inner Self &#171; Where&#8217;s the Sun?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=160#comment-964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Can RTI Work? We Went to The Moon, Right? [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Can RTI Work? We Went to The Moon, Right? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Reid Lyon</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/06/10/can-rti-work-we-went-to-the-moon-right/#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reid Lyon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=160#comment-898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Barry:  I believe you hit several nails on the head.  The increase in referrals for special education are accounted for in part by ineffective instruction.  RTI has taught us that referral rates can be reduced significantly when classroom teachers are provided with professional development that helps them identify academic strengths and weaknesses and to customize instruction based on continuous assessment data.  There is overwhelming research evidence that instruction that is direct, explicit and systematic is significantly more effective than instruction that less intentional and systematic - particularly with kids who are having a tough time learning concepts whether it be reading, math, or science.  But the gap between what we know works and what is actually implemented in schools and classrroms remains pretyy massive, no matter how good the research is.  Trying to understand why we don&#039;t employ what we know is effective has been a great deal harder than I ever imagined.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry:  I believe you hit several nails on the head.  The increase in referrals for special education are accounted for in part by ineffective instruction.  RTI has taught us that referral rates can be reduced significantly when classroom teachers are provided with professional development that helps them identify academic strengths and weaknesses and to customize instruction based on continuous assessment data.  There is overwhelming research evidence that instruction that is direct, explicit and systematic is significantly more effective than instruction that less intentional and systematic &#8211; particularly with kids who are having a tough time learning concepts whether it be reading, math, or science.  But the gap between what we know works and what is actually implemented in schools and classrroms remains pretyy massive, no matter how good the research is.  Trying to understand why we don&#8217;t employ what we know is effective has been a great deal harder than I ever imagined.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Garelick</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/06/10/can-rti-work-we-went-to-the-moon-right/#comment-891</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Garelick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=160#comment-891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting post, Mr. Lyon.  

I suggested something along the lines of dyspedagogia in an article I wrote on traditional math.  My argument is something along these lines.  I&#039;ve excerpted it here:

The mischaracterization of traditional math fails to capture the nuance of instruction and scaffolding that many teachers (including mine) engaged in.They didn&#039;t just stand there and lecture; they asked us questions and goaded us into thinking, providing us with prompts and support through many worked examples.This is a form of direct instruction, and it was combined with cumulative reviews and mastery learning.It is interesting therefore to learn that direct instruction and mastery learning are recommended methods of teaching for students with learning disabilities. (Rosenberg, et al., 2008)It is also interesting to note that over the past two decades, the number of students with learning disabilities has increased.In 2006, approximately 2.6 million students were identified with learning disabilities, more than three times as manyas were identified in 1976-1977.Although one reason for this growth might be better means of diagnoses of specific disorders, there has still been growth.Between 1990 and 2004, 650,000 additional students were identified with learning disabilities, representing a 31% increase at a time when the overall student population grew by only 15%.(U.S. Department of Education, 2006).

The increase in the number of students with learning disabilities raises the interesting question (if not uncomfortable for some), of whether the older way of teaching (direct instruction and mastery learning) may have had unintended benefits. According to Rosenberg, et. al. (2008), one factor associated with the identification of students with learning disabilities is the lack of access to effective instruction.Rosenberg et. al, also note that up to 50% of students with learning disabilities have been shown to overcome their learning difficulties when given high-quality instruction. Is the shift toward inquiry-based teaching resulting in more students being identified with learning disabilities?Are these students who in earlier days would have swum with the rest of the pack? 

(From http://ednews.org/articles/19414/1/It-Works-for-Me--An-Exploration-of-Traditional-Math-Part-III/Page1.html)

I hope this is looked into more seriously given the release of the National Math Panel&#039;s report.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post, Mr. Lyon.  </p>
<p>I suggested something along the lines of dyspedagogia in an article I wrote on traditional math.  My argument is something along these lines.  I&#8217;ve excerpted it here:</p>
<p>The mischaracterization of traditional math fails to capture the nuance of instruction and scaffolding that many teachers (including mine) engaged in.They didn&#8217;t just stand there and lecture; they asked us questions and goaded us into thinking, providing us with prompts and support through many worked examples.This is a form of direct instruction, and it was combined with cumulative reviews and mastery learning.It is interesting therefore to learn that direct instruction and mastery learning are recommended methods of teaching for students with learning disabilities. (Rosenberg, et al., 2008)It is also interesting to note that over the past two decades, the number of students with learning disabilities has increased.In 2006, approximately 2.6 million students were identified with learning disabilities, more than three times as manyas were identified in 1976-1977.Although one reason for this growth might be better means of diagnoses of specific disorders, there has still been growth.Between 1990 and 2004, 650,000 additional students were identified with learning disabilities, representing a 31% increase at a time when the overall student population grew by only 15%.(U.S. Department of Education, 2006).</p>
<p>The increase in the number of students with learning disabilities raises the interesting question (if not uncomfortable for some), of whether the older way of teaching (direct instruction and mastery learning) may have had unintended benefits. According to Rosenberg, et. al. (2008), one factor associated with the identification of students with learning disabilities is the lack of access to effective instruction.Rosenberg et. al, also note that up to 50% of students with learning disabilities have been shown to overcome their learning difficulties when given high-quality instruction. Is the shift toward inquiry-based teaching resulting in more students being identified with learning disabilities?Are these students who in earlier days would have swum with the rest of the pack? </p>
<p>(From <a href="http://ednews.org/articles/19414/1/It-Works-for-Me--An-Exploration-of-Traditional-Math-Part-III/Page1.html" rel="nofollow">http://ednews.org/articles/19414/1/It-Works-for-Me&#8211;An-Exploration-of-Traditional-Math-Part-III/Page1.html</a>)</p>
<p>I hope this is looked into more seriously given the release of the National Math Panel&#8217;s report.</p>
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		<title>By: matthewladner</title>
		<link>http://jaypgreene.com/2008/06/10/can-rti-work-we-went-to-the-moon-right/#comment-885</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[matthewladner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaypgreene.wordpress.com/?p=160#comment-885</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post Dr. Lyon. It sounds like those interested in RTI should make switching away from a bounty funding system a part of any statewide effort to improve diagnosis as a &quot;necessary but not sufficient&quot; step to create the correct incentives.

Under the bounty system you can be foregoing revenue when you correctly identify children. Add that to all the other problems you describe equals a recipe for disaster.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Dr. Lyon. It sounds like those interested in RTI should make switching away from a bounty funding system a part of any statewide effort to improve diagnosis as a &#8220;necessary but not sufficient&#8221; step to create the correct incentives.</p>
<p>Under the bounty system you can be foregoing revenue when you correctly identify children. Add that to all the other problems you describe equals a recipe for disaster.</p>
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